trinities

She's what?

She took her first unassisted breath approximately six years ago. She opened her eyes approximately six years ago. She entered the world of human contact approximately six years ago.

However you want to put it, that is the rough period of time.

...I don't think this is the clarification you meant it to be, you know. If Nena's six, then Michael's what, seven? Eight? And both of them look pretty clearly into their teenage years. If there's more detail to this, you're going to have to give me at least a hint here.

That sounds about right for Michael, yes.

Specify what you would like more detail on.

...We could start with why they look as old as they do and move on to why Michael especially has the sex drive of about ten teenagers if he's actually eight.

Is this more of a technical age that you're talking about, here?

Due to their natural aging rather than... anything else, I can only presume that they are physiologically normal. Well, as normal as somebody like Allelujah, for example.

Yes, a technical age. I suppose you could say that they're teenagers with the first twelve years of their lives missing, but for the purposes of your argument on morality, they are children.

Edited 2009-11-08 23:03 (UTC)

...I'd be more inclined to accept that as an excuse if they didn't seem to have picked up on everything else about being a teenager fast enough.

If you think that being given behavioral mimicry techniques for the basis of infiltration is equivalent to learning basic morality from scratch with me teaching them, then I suspect you need to re-evaluate your reasoning.

If they can pick up everything else with behavioural mimicry then they've got no leg to stand on. They might have the moral compass of kids, but they've got the brains of teenagers. Hell, I've seen real five year olds with more knowledge of right and wrong.

You're not listening. Again. They were trained to be psychopaths. But they are not innately incapable of changing that behavior. It's going to take time, and a lot of help.

I thought you'd know that.

I'm listening just fine. The reason they act like bratty kids is because they are overgrown bratty kids. It's a reason, but it's still no excuse. You can say it is until you're blue in the face, but I've still yet to see anything in them worth the time and effort you're putting into them.

Why would I know anything about trying to rehabilitate them, Tieria? In case you missed the memo, they're not exactly my favorite people.

Because you're deliberately trying not to see. She might not show it on an Internet forum, but Nena has shown herself to me to be kind, understanding and helpful. Michael finds it harder to show it, but he can be too. You've never spent any time with them.

I wasn't talking about them specifically.

That sounds like an amazing transformation that takes place when you take a keyboard off her, then. Maybe that's the answer, just don't let her near a computer and she'll actually become bearable. I spent more than enough time with Michael during that virus to know he's still a prick who I will only ever find kind, understanding and helpful when under the influence of whatever this community does.

...My experience with helping people doesn't extend to 'criminally insane bastards'.

Have you ever considered that maybe they just don't like you?

They're not "criminally insane bastards" either. They're individuals that have been brought up with no love or affection whatsoever, and absolutely abysmal moral guidance tailored to their maker's needs.

I'd be pretty worried if they did. I'm under no illusions that they're trying to be nice to me and failing, or something. It doesn't change anything.

Hn. You can keep piling their sob story on me all you like. I'm not going to change my mind.

I'm not trying to give you a sob story, you idiot! I'm trying to tell you that you've helped people like this before, and that they should be no different! I admit that they're coarse, and rude, and they're still a long, long way from perfect people, but they're working on it!

How many psychopathic bastards do you know that check up on you to make sure you're alright, and hug you and offer to talk it out with you if you're not? That try and share their pudding with you if there's none left when you get to the mess hall because you were late to lunch? That cried and said their birthday was ruined because you had to leave them and go back to work, and sat around with your best friend eating cake until they were sick because they missed you?

How many psychopathic bastards do you know that despite finding out you'd tricked them into believing you were a completely different person of the opposite gender, and were only pretending to be their girlfriend, accepted it as a necessity and went along with it good-naturedly? That despite all my bitching, moaning, and generally being a horrible person to them, still does what I want them to with relatively little fuss? That love their siblings so much that they're entirely filled with rage whenever anybody says so much as a bad word to them, and yet understands that we need to take precautions over the fact that one of them was supposed to be dead but has mysteriously returned, and not just run off to find them?

Face it! You just don't like them, and they don't like you. As such, you don't care about what they're really like.

Have you considered that you're the exact opposite? That it's you that doesn't care what they're really like, because you're too focused on the idea that there might, somewhere, be some spark of good in them that you can fan the flames of? Because you do like them, for some godforsaken reason. So you overlook everything wrong they do and write it off as excused and jump on everything that could possibly be construed as a positive attribute and point to it as proof positive that they're good people, really. 'She let me share her pudding, so just ignore the pile of bodies in the corner, she's really a lovely person'?

For Christ's sake, Tieria, even when Michael thought he was in love with you during that virus he was still all set to beat your face in! No, I don't like them, to put it mildly, but that's because I'm under no false conceptions about them!

Nena has only killed two people in one situation in this entire year, and that was because she believed her brother's life was in the balance. If it had been you, you would have done the same.

He was upset! I. I don't have false conceptions! I don't just let them do what they want, when they screw up, they get punished!

Oh please. Because Michael's life was in danger? Don't make me laugh! That just gave her - both of them - an excuse to run riot. They weren't just out to protect each other, they enjoyed it. Everyone in that situation had someone they cared about on the line, not all of them went on a damn killing spree!

You might think that, Tieria, but what punishments do you levy that they'd take seriously? I'm sure they do all the sad faces and nodding when you lecture them, but when it comes down to it - what control do you actually have over them? Their word? Their friendship? Do you have any basis other than trusting them that you have any authority beyond lip service? If it came down to it, they'd choose each other over you in a heartbeat, and probably laugh as you went down in flames!

...I'm sorry, Lockon. I guess I misunderstood everything that I learned about trust and friendship. But then, I never was any good at understanding those sorts of things.

Edited 2009-11-10 16:30 (UTC)

....That's not what I - damnit, Tieria. I'm not saying any of that. Just. All I mean is, you're offering them all this friendship and trust, and if they deserved even half of it -

...I'm just worried it's going to come back and bite you in the end, that's all. They're not trustworthy people; they're dangerous. I don't understand why you've thrown your lot in with them, and I don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt because of it.

I've thrown in my lot with them because they've been there when I've needed them!

33.

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]

[locked]